* * * Wizards Community THREAD * * * -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- THREAD : The Permanency List Started at 11-02-04 12:32 PM by Wyrd Visit at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=332210 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 1] Author : Wyrd Date : 11-02-04 12:32 PM Title : The Permanency List This is the list that I've made so far of all the non-PH spells that can be used with permanency. Some people thought it should have it's own topic, so it wouldn't be lost. Thanx for that support. The sources I've checked are mentioned below. If anyone wants to type out the PH spells for completeness, that would be very cool ... this took to much time as it is ;) Spells from sources I don't have access too are also very welcome. It is assumed the psionic/magic transparancy is used, so Incarnate=Permanency. * On Self Only Spell (Class Lvl) Source XP ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Air Breathing (Sor/Wiz 3) SaSp 1500 *Aura Sight (Psion/Wilder 4) XPH 2000 Black Sand (Clr 3, Sand 2) SaSt ? Blindsight (Sor/Wiz 3) SaSp 1500 Bridge of Sound (Sor/Wiz 3) SaSp 1500 Cloud Wings (Sor/Wiz 2) SaSp 1000 Clearstone (Sor/Wiz 3) LEoF 1500 *Conceal Thoughts (Psion/Wilder/PSW 1) XPH 500 *Danger Sense (Psion/Wilder/PSW 3) XPH 1500 *Darkvision, Psionic (Psion/Wilder 3, PSW 2) XPH 1500 Darsson's Chilling Chamber (Sor/Wiz 2) ShSo ? Darsson's Cooling Breeze (Sor/Wiz/Drd 1) ShSo ? Darsson's Fiery Furnace (Sor/Wiz 2) ShSo ? *Detect Psionics (Psion/Wilder/PSW 1) XPH 500 *Detect Remote Viewing (Psion/Wilder 4) XPH 2000 *Detect Teleportation (Nomad 1) XPH 500 Dimensional Lock (Sor/Wiz 8) TB 4000 Durability ??? Dr305 1500 *Elfsight (Psion/Wilder 2, PSW 1) XPH 1000 Enhance Familiar (Sor/Wiz 3) TB 1500 (removed by Complete Arcana) *Extend Tentacles (Sor/Wiz 4) SaSp 2000 Familiar Pocket (Sor/Wiz 2) TB 1000 (removed by Complete Arcana) *Fins to Feet (Sor/Wiz 2) SaSp 1000 Fortify Familiar (Sor/Wiz 4) TB 2000 (removed by Complete Arcana) Fuse Arms (Sor/Wiz 3) SaSp 1500 Girallon's Blessing (Sor/Wiz 3) SaSp 1500 Ice Web (Sor/Wiz 4) FB ? Illusionary Pits (Sor/Wiz 4) SaSp 2000 Improved Blindsight (Sor/Wiz 4) SaSp 2500 Improved Enlarge (Sor/Wiz 5) SaSp 2500 Improved Reduce (Sor/Wiz 5) SaSp 2500 *Know Direction and Location (Psion/Wilder 1) XPH 500 Low-Light Vision (Sor/Wiz 1) SaSp 500 Major Resistance (Sor/Wiz 2) SaSp 1000 *My Light (Psion/Wilder/PSW 1) XPH 500 Otiluke's Dispelling Screen (Sor/Wiz 4) TB 2000 Otiluke's Greater Dispelling Screen (Sor/Wiz 7) TB 3500 Rapid Burrowing (Sor/Wiz 2) SaSp 1000 Scent (Sor/Wiz 2) SaSp 1000 Silvered Claws (Drd/Rng 1) BoED ? Silvered Weapon (Pal 1, Rng 2) BoED ? Skull Watch (Clr/Sor/Wiz 3) PGtF ? Spiritwall (Sor/Wiz 5) TB 2500 Superior Resistance (Sor/Wiz 5) SaSp 2500 *Tongues, Psionic (Psion/Wilder 2) XPH 1000 Transparency ??? Dr305 1500 *Ubiquitous Vision (Psion/Wilder/PSW 3) XPH 1500 Wall of Coldfire (Drd 5, Sor/Wiz 4) FB ? Wall of Limbs (Sor/Wiz 5) SaSp 2500 Wall of Magma (Clr/Sor/Wiz 5, Drd 6) SaSt ? Wall of Moonlight (Initiate of Selune 4) PGtF 2000 Wall of Sand (Clr/Drd/Sor/Wiz 4) SaSt ? Wall of Water (Clr/Drd/Sor/Wiz 4) SaSt ? Weapon of Energy (Sor/Wiz 4) SaSp 2000 Wings of the Sea (Sor/Wiz 2) SaSp 1000 Checked books with permanency spells: BoED - Book of Exalted Deeds Dr###- Dragon Magazine Number ### FB - Frostburn LEoF - Lost Empires of Fearun PGtF - Player's Guide to Faerun SaSp - Savage Species SaSt - Sandstorm ShSo - Shining South TB - Tome and Blood XPH - Expanded Psionics Handbook Checked books without permanency spells: Book of Vile Darkness, Champions of Ruin, Complete Adventurer/Arcana/Divine/Warrior, Deities and Demigods, Defenders of the Faith, Draconomicon, Dragonlance Campaign Setting, Eberron Campaign Setting, Faiths and Pantheons, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Libris Mortis, Lords of Darkness, Lords of Madness, Magic of Faerun, Manual of the Planes, Masters of the Wild, Miniatures Handbook, Planar Handbook, Races of Destiny/Eberron/Faerun/Stone/the Wild, Serpent Kingdoms, Song and Silence, Underdark, Unapproachable East -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 2] Author : Wyrd Date : 11-07-04 07:27 AM Can someone check Libris Mortis and/or Shining South for spells that can be used with permanency ? Thx ... Wyrd -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 3] Author : Bacris Date : 11-07-04 11:36 AM if you're using Psionics from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the default magic / psionics transparency rule, the following all work, as well, per Incarnate, the psionic Permanency: Aura sight 15th 2,000 XP Conceal thoughts 9th 500 XP Danger sense 13th 1,500 XP Detect psionics 9th 500 XP Detect remote viewing 15th 2,000 XP Detect teleportation 9th 500 XP Elfsight 11th 1,000 XP Know direction and location 9th 500 XP My light 9th 500 XP Psionic darkvision 13th 1,500 XP Psionic tongues 11th 1,000 XP Ubiquitous vision 13th 1,500 XP -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 4] Author : lostone Date : 11-07-04 12:42 PM Maybe I missed something, but it looks to me like you went through BoVD and didn't find anything acceptable for Permanency. However I see nothing wrong with Sadism, why did you skip that one? Was it just an oversight or did you have a reason for it? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 5] Author : scrollreader Date : 11-07-04 02:24 PM Thi is a list of spells that can be made permanant, according to the rules. Not spells that /should/ be permanant, or that you might be able to talk your DM into allowig you to make permanant. Just the ones that are by the rules, allowed to be made permanant. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 6] Author : Carnifexx Date : 11-07-04 03:25 PM [QUOTE=Wyrd]Can someone check Libris Mortis and/or Shining South for spells that can be used with permanency ? Thx ... Wyrd[/QUOTE] Libris Mortis checked... no spells that can be made permanent with permanency there... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 7] Author : lostone Date : 11-07-04 03:49 PM Permanency from the SRD Universal Level: Sor/Wiz 5 Components: V, S, XP Casting Time: 2 rounds Range: See text Target, Effect, or Area: See text Duration: Permanent; see text Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No This spell makes certain other spells permanent. Depending on the spell, you must be of a minimum caster level and must expend a number of XP. You can make the following spells permanent in regard to yourself. You cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell. You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell. In addition to personal use, permanency can be used to make the following spells permanent on yourself, another creature, or an object (as appropriate). Additionally, the following spells can be cast upon objects or areas only and rendered permanent. Spells cast on other creatures, objects, or locations (not on you) are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal. XP Cost: See tables above. As I said before "Maybe I missed something", but I don't see why Sadism isn't allowable by the rules. What about Sadism goes against the rules of Permanency RAW? I don't see anything that is ruling it out other than it isn't in a core book so it isn't in the list of allowable spells...just like the spells listed in this thread. In fact, nothing in there really rules out any spell that has a duration. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 8] Author : scrollreader Date : 11-07-04 03:51 PM Except that each of the spells listed /explictly/ is allowed to be added to the Permanancy list, as you'd see if you'd looked in the appropriate books. :rolleyes: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 9] Author : Qaetar Date : 11-07-04 09:58 PM I believe all the spells quoted either have a line stating they can be made permanent or a table of spells in that book which can be made permanent. Since Sadism doesn't have a line stating it can be made permanent and BoVDorkness does not have a table, it is not RAW eligible. (Qaetar) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 10] Author : LordKiwi Date : 11-08-04 05:15 AM [QUOTE=lostone]Maybe I missed something, but it looks to me like you went through BoVD and didn't find anything acceptable for Permanency. However I see nothing wrong with Sadism, why did you skip that one? Was it just an oversight or did you have a reason for it?[/QUOTE] While it does say that other spells may be made perminent at the GM's discression, Saddism is a horrably broken spell to start with, without making it perminent. Combined with any high damage build it ensures you don't miss or fail saves after the first round of combat. Lord Kiwi, -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 11] Author : RPGhaulsass Date : 11-08-04 07:29 AM Could Expeditious Retreat be made Permanent, as it is a duration spell and can be Extended/Persistent...?:) I don't see a reason why it shouldn't...:) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 12] Author : lostone Date : 11-08-04 10:44 AM [QUOTE=Qaetar]I believe all the spells quoted either have a line stating they can be made permanent or a table of spells in that book which can be made permanent. Since Sadism doesn't have a line stating it can be made permanent and BoVDorkness does not have a table, it is not RAW eligible. (Qaetar)[/QUOTE]I understand that Sadism is a powerfully broken, however I simply used that one as an example because I thought it fit the poorly spelled out requirements. BoVD is a 3.0 book, were they listing what spells could be made permanent that way in 3.0? I thought that was basically something that started with 3.5. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 13] Author : Wyrd Date : 11-08-04 11:23 AM [QUOTE=Bacris]if you're using Psionics from the Expanded Psionics Handbook and the default magic / psionics transparency rule, the following all work, as well, per Incarnate, the psionic Permanency:[/QUOTE] Can you add the castertype and level to the list you made? ... like ego4/psw2 and stuff like that ? ... thx, nice list :D [QUOTE=Carnifexx]Libris Mortis checked... no spells that can be made permanent with permanency there...[/QUOTE] Thanx :D -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 14] Author : iN.fuSioN Date : 11-08-04 11:26 AM [QUOTE=lostone]I understand that Sadism is a powerfully broken, however I simply used that one as an example because I thought it fit the poorly spelled out requirements. BoVD is a 3.0 book, were they listing what spells could be made permanent that way in 3.0? I thought that was basically something that started with 3.5.[/QUOTE] They were listing it on 3.0. Savage Species is a clear example. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 15] Author : Wyrd Date : 12-26-04 09:55 AM I added the spells from XPH (thx to Bacris), and updated the list to include the spells that were removed by Complete Arcana ... how lame is that, a complete arcana book that doesn't add any spells to a list like this, but only removes a few ... let's hope for more in other sources. Shining South adds a few area elemental spells to the list. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 16] Author : Wyrd Date : 02-18-05 06:39 AM Any nice options in the new books out there ? :bump: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 17] Author : Dr Durothil Date : 02-18-05 10:13 AM You could make Wraithstrike permanent... for like... 50000 XP. j/k :P Thanks Wyrd BTW, I'm bookmarking this thread. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 18] Author : Battousai Date : 02-18-05 10:32 AM Can't Prismatic Sphere be used in permanency? It was in 3.0. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 19] Author : SpartanMD Date : 02-18-05 10:39 AM apologize that don't have my books at work, but how about Fist of Stone, the 1st level arcane spell from comple arcance or adventurer? Is legal for Permancy? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 20] Author : Wyrd Date : 02-20-05 08:21 AM [QUOTE=Battousai]Can't Prismatic Sphere be used in permanency? It was in 3.0.[/QUOTE] Yes it can .... I haven't listed the spells from Players Handbook / SRD. [QUOTE=SpartanMD]apologize that don't have my books at work, but how about Fist of Stone, the 1st level arcane spell from comple arcance or adventurer? Is legal for Permancy?[/QUOTE] maybe ... none of my friends has the adventerer book (yet). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 21] Author : Wyrd Date : 04-07-05 01:58 PM [quote="SpartanMD"]apologize that don't have my books at work, but how about Fist of Stone, the 1st level arcane spell from comple arcance or adventurer? Is legal for Permancy?[/quote] Fist of Stone (arcana) has no xp-listing, so nope. Added the only spell from Lost Empires of Faerun. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 22] Author : AramilWindwalker Date : 04-07-05 02:05 PM Complete adventurer doesn't mention any as "permanency legal" in words, but certian ones could work easily. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 23] Author : ff6shadow Date : 04-22-05 09:17 AM Found this topic today, figured I could check my books. I didn't find any permanency aplicable spells in any of the Complete books, the Draconomicon, or the Ebberon Campaign Setting. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 24] Author : snb1131 Date : 06-29-05 04:53 PM Please forgive my ignorance, but is there a place which spells out the rules for whether or not a spell may be made permanent (other than the PHB list)? If so, could someone please provide its location? Thanks!!! :) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 25] Author : lostone Date : 06-30-05 07:30 AM Supposedly each spell in other books should have a plug at the end of the spell description that says something like: "This spell can be made permanent." However that seems to be really hit and miss, some books list that some books don't. It's really a DM decision. But that is why this thread was started, for easy reference. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 26] Author : Wyrd Date : 08-04-05 01:00 PM Checked Lords of Madness & Races of Eberron ... nothing new :( -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 27] Author : Sierra Date : 09-05-05 11:27 AM :bump: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 28] Author : lostone Date : 12-01-05 07:22 AM :bump: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 29] Author : Wyrd Date : 12-10-05 12:59 PM I'll be adding more books to the checked list during the holidays. Added Sandstorm. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 30] Author : djubre666 Date : 01-23-06 06:20 AM I was just wandering about the blindsight spell. It is almost indentical in all the basic statistics as arcane sight(AS), and AS is alowed to be made permanent, since one of the first arguments against it would be the difference in powere of the mentioned effects my argument would be that they have the same level, duration and cost. Meaning one of them is broken..... Blindsight is in a 3.0 book if I remember correctly and therefore doesn't have the "can be made permanent" paragraph... -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 31] Author : Seeker of Truth Date : 01-26-06 04:52 PM I wish the spell compendium had included an updated list for permancy. Maybe we'll get luck and they'll print one in an online supliment. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- [Post 32] Author : Wyrd Date : 02-02-06 11:14 AM [QUOTE=djubre666]Blindsight is in a 3.0 book if I remember correctly and therefore doesn't have the "can be made permanent" paragraph...[/QUOTE] In Savage Species p.60 the blindsight spell from the same book is listed as a spell that can be permanencied, it's listed in the first post. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The messages has been download from Wizards Community at http://boards1.wizards.com at 10.05.2006 01:23:49